Breaking the Blueprint

Fool’s Gold: Tech Vendors Are Selling You a Dream – But Handing You a Jigsaw Puzzle | Chris Morrissey, Zoom CX

• Vinay Parmar & Iqbal Javaid • Season 1 • Episode 8

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Welcome to Episode 8 of Breaking the Blueprint – the podcast where we challenge conventional thinking on customer experience, loyalty, and leadership.

In this episode, we sit down with Chris Morrissey, GM & Global Head of CX Sales and GTM at Zoom, for a no-holds-barred conversation about what’s really going on in the CX tech space.

👉 Spoiler: Tech vendors are selling you a dream — but handing you a jigsaw puzzle.

Chris shares his candid take on:
•Why so many CX platforms look impressive, but fail to deliver
•The rise (and risk) of “Frankenstacks” in customer experience
•How Zoom is building its CX product organically — no shortcuts, no acquisitions
•The power of native integration and what it means for speed, scale, and simplicity
•The role of AI in separating signal from noise
•Why contact centres are the most underused source of commercial value
•And how CX leaders can shift from firefighting to forward-thinking

This episode is packed with insights for:
•⁠  ⁠Customer Experience (CX) Leaders
•⁠  ⁠Contact Centre and Service Leaders
•⁠  ⁠Chief Marketing Officers (CMOs) and Digital Transformation Directors
•⁠  ⁠Customer Insight and VoC Teams
•⁠  ⁠SaaS and Tech Professionals building or buying CX platforms

🎤 Hosted by Vinay Parmar and Iqbal Javaid – industry leaders, keynote speakers, and co-founders of the Breaking the Blueprint series.

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Vinay:

Hi everybody, and welcome to episode eight of Breaking the Blueprint with Vinay PArmar and Iqbal Javaid we are here in London today at the head offices of Zoom, and we've got a very special guest with us. But before we introduce him, in good tradition for our podcast, what have you been up to over the last couple of weeks?

Iqbal:

I think the last time we did our podcast, it's been a couple of weeks now. we spoke about, CX being hijacked by tech vendors. I know we're gonna go into that. but it's been, a whirlwind since we last, had a conversation. Obviously it was just us reflecting on. on, the guest that we've had, up until, our kind of sixth episode. So we celebrated the, sixth anniversary in that sense. Yeah. and today, we're delighted to have a new guest with us. we, joined by someone who's been shaping customer experience technology landscape for over two decades. Chris Morrissey who's the GM and Global head of CX Sales and GTM at Zoom, which is quite, quite a mouthful It's a long one. It's a long time. interestingly before Zoom, Chris spent, seven years at Nice. Where he served at SVP Head of International and across both companies. He's built and scaled customer experience solutions worldwide. So I felt the journey that we've been on since we've been discussing Yeah. customer experience. I think it's a nice. Place to come and now speak to an industry leader, particularly in technology, to get his perspective on it. Sure. so Chris, please introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit about why cx, why is it such a big passion for you?

Chris:

Yeah, no, and thanks for the intro and, the, very long title there. You win the prize for the longest title ever before it gets so, yeah. Yeah. So for, I've been in I think 20 years as being generous. but I stopped dating myself, so it's probably closer to the three number there. but that would, date me. but like most of us, we talked earlier today, right? when I was going to university, I wasn't look going down the list like doctor, no lawyer, no cx. Yes, that's what I want to do. Like you don't go to university for it. You just go and carve out a path. And then most of us that are in here land here through very different paths. And then if you like it, you stay in it forever. And if you don't, you do a stint. And I'm one of those people that. I just was like, passionate about it. And From 30 years ago when I was part of a very small startup that we actually ended up selling, which is how I landed at nice. And then, and, but it's weird. When I first started, it was more of the recording platform. And I would have friends like, make fun of me. so what you selling voicemail? I'm like, not really, but then, and then I try to explain it and they would tune out, right? Yeah. okay, I don't really care. but you fast forward to today, like it, what I was really more passionate about and I love technology, but it's not really what my passion is. My passion is really like, how do you actually help brands deliver a really good customer experience? Because we're all customers, right? And We've all, had great experiences and we all had very bad ones. Yeah. And the way I'm wired is I, and I know I'm not like everybody, but I pay premium for good service And I will run away very fast from bad service and I'm okay with that. Yeah. So if I can help brands, like I feel like what I'm doing, like I live how I like want to help other businesses. Yeah. And that's how I customer experience. And I'm like, whether it be contact centers, which, I think that term's getting a little bit long than the tooth.'cause it's not really, I think contact centers, you think of like people sitting in a room with a bunch of phones, which is really some of that, but it's much broader than that. Yeah. but, anyway, like contact centers. but even like services and restaurants, any service industry, it's very easy to make the difference between an absolute exceptional moment where you become an advocate for life and you promote that company and you stay there forever to a horrendous moment. And it's very fine line between it. And sometimes what I've been doing is long enough I think technology. Is the difference? Yeah. Okay. Not always. technology's not panacea, it doesn't solve all problems, but I think in many cases, technology doesn't enable agents, supervisors, managers, executives to do what they really want to get done. So you say, go deliver this and here's a three wheeled wagon, go move these bricks. Yeah.

Vinay:

it's very true. we're surrounded by, I have this conversation with someone because of the role I'm in, I'm probably tuned in more. So everywhere we go, I'm always looking at what's going on. My wife hates going out for dinner with me'cause she's can we just go somewhere where you're not gonna complain? And it's not that I complain, I just spot things and I spot opportunities where exactly what you're saying, it's just a slight, it's just a side step. It's not even a leap. Yeah. A side step can take so many of the experiences that we have in our lives. Or a seven out of 10 or a six outta 10, which are not so bad that we're not gonna complain, but not so good that we're really gonna come back in a hurry. Yeah. You're

Chris:

not

Vinay:

helping the promoter support. Exactly. And you, and it only takes a small shift. To go from a seven to a nine and a 10. Yeah. Really small things and, I agree that technology is a great enabler for a stable to do that. and so Chris, just before we dive into the main body of the podcast and, great introduction, just for people watching this who aren't familiar with Zoom other than, during COVID times when they were on the, on a video call to family or it is a way of keeping in touch Zoom in the CX space. Just give us a quick explainer about what you're doing, what Zoom is in that space. Yeah. What kind of things you do. And then we'll drive, dive into the podcast.

Chris:

Yeah. I'll try to make it quick. but It's, it is been a very, rapid journey in two years. but I think probably one of the most I more important messages we try to get to everybody, zoom as a company is, zoom is much more than meetings. And this goes beyond CX landscape too. We're talking about events and marketing with, webinars and events. We have our, revenue accelerator, we have the CX platform, we. have, a IC for the workplace phone. There's so much that we offer. one of the, good news, bad news with being so well known for having meetings and video is, it's like that's what you're a meetings, video company. Yeah. now the good news is, we have a very good reputation doing that very well, And, being hyper-focused on our customer. but then we have to do education. yes, we do that very well, but we have this broader portfolio. So about two years ago, I, get a call about, they were looking to really, launch their, they had a CX product market. It was, I think at that point it was more like a voice centric, Yeah. a CD video.

Iqbal:

I say video. Yeah, it was a video

Chris:

first for sure. yeah, voice. They probably, actually, I think they were the first video, native, yeah. A CD. and I was like, my first reaction it's, It was like, I feel like I'm being punked.'cause I don't think Zoom has a contact center platform. if my, is my buddy calling me, trying to get me to go, taking interview that doesn't really exist. but no, I, and I was actually very impressed with all the people I met in the interview. And, I think one of the first things that got me attracted to really come over was the acknowledgement and the willingness to invest that CX isn't a feature of a phone. That was my biggest fear. No, CX is a discipline, right. In all the areas of the business. Right. It's, sales, how you message who you talk to. Yeah. Services, partners, ecosystem. Everything is different. So just because you have a uc platform doesn't mean you've earned the right to be a serious contender in cx. And, I, we, these, are conversations I'm having in drill process and all the answers were like, we agree, we want to be a CX vendor. We want to be, we wanna lead it, we want to innovate fast. Come help us do it. And so that was the answer. they were willing to understand it was a discipline Yeah. Not a feature. And that was a pivotal decision moment for me. and, by the way, they have, I say they, as we now, we've honored that in spades, in terms of building the discipline. So it's very exciting. and we've innovated, and we'll talk even more about this, everything's organic. I think it's fairly public knowledge that there's been a couple, rumors in the past about acquisitions. are we gonna get into the space through an acquisition or are we gonna, do we do this natively? And I think we danced on a couple of those options for a couple years and fast forward in, in two short years, we are all native built on the same Zoom cloud that runs, million plus simultaneous meetings and all that stuff. So it's, super exciting about what we're doing with cx.

Iqbal:

Yeah. and I think that trajectory is pretty clear. I would say, a lot of the analysts in the industry have been very skeptical around Yeah. Zoom's kind of, they've always felt actually Zoom can't get there without acquisition. And I've seen firsthand that actually to build it organically, taking your time with it, to do it properly has, is starting to now prove dividends. You guys are starting to see a lot of success and, that's a real testament to how you've built a discipline within this business to, to treat CX. As, as an industry that, you've taken to market With the brand. I think the heritage of the brand's been very helpful. Very helpful. when you turn up to a meeting, and I've said this in the past, haven't I, when you tell a customer you are from Zoom, you've done half the job already because they have such good memories, and I know you always talk about memories. It is, they still remember that time during COVID Where, they had that conversation with their grandmother. Even one bank manager recently, I was speaking to her and she said, yeah, I see you used to work for Zoom and she just remembers all these great memories from that time. Yeah. Yeah. And, that's great leverage. And you are sat in front of a customer and you bring up a brand like this. I

Chris:

think it's, it's very refreshing to have meetings start that way for sure. Yeah. but, I do remember, the, one of the things that I took and they asked like, why is Zoom and cx Is it, is seems like a very different trajectory than the path Zoom was on. And going back to your point, if you think about the early days when we had the video meetings and you, look at Eric's why, what was he passionate about? And yes, he's an amazing, engineer and developer and, the platform is amazing. But his why was I wanted people to collaborate and connect better and deliver happiness. That was his why. But it was with the, through the lens of employees. Yes. At the time.

Unknown:

Yeah.

Chris:

But if you think about what, so a brand wanted to make sure that their employees collaborated better, experienced happiness, could connect better, a better experience. Right. Easier, reliable, high quality, all those things. Right. Yeah. Don't brands want that kind of same theme for the customers. Extend

Iqbal:

exactly. Extend that to your customers, extend that to the customers.

Chris:

So I argue, I don't think there's a sharp left that some of our competitors like try to, I think the narrative is easy to say, this is Zoom, like so out of left field for presume to do this. I'm like, no, it is actually a very natural progression if you look at the why of Zoom heritage. it's

Vinay:

interesting, in our last podcast I, I threw out this phrase, which was, I think CX has been hijacked, the term CX has been hijacked and in many ways hijacked by technology companies that talk about cx. But it's very much from the ven, from the technologist vendor perspective. you go on, their a SaaS platform, but they're talking about, we've got CXS and CX that, and really the syn says, you're just interested in selling as licenses or technology into the platform. and actually a lot of the thought leadership that you see. Out, is very tech vendor driven. It's the perspective of people trying to sell platforms into organizations. Yeah. And not so much people like me that were leading cx In organizations really sharing that, or at least it doesn't seem that they have the same, an equal platform or voice in terms of amplification. So when somebody says CX has been hijacked by tech vendors, somebody like me sitting there saying that to you, what's your, take on

Chris:

that? How do you feel about that? I would say there's probably a grain of truth, but for several reasons. One is, there's a lot of markets that historically have been adjacent and no one was really super excited to claim they were part of a contact center market. That's, it wasn't, it didn't have that sexy name. It didn't have this kind of real glamorous appeal. It didn't seem like the type of conversations were happening in boardrooms. So like ticketing platforms and CRM platforms and other, adjacent just didn't like really. Like you do you and we'll do us and We'll coexist forever. Customer experience becomes much more of a kind of sign, a strategic boardroom type conversation. And then you start talking about system of engagement and system of record, and you really need both to deliver better customer experience. more vendors are talking about in being in the space than ever before, This is convergence happening. So I think that's one of the reasons it's being hijacked or the perception maybe it's being hijacked, is because way more vendors are talking about it Yeah. Than talked about contact centers, say 10 years ago. So you're getting it from any vendor that touches any part of that customer journey is a customer experience platform. So you'll hear it from every vendor in the journey. and then the other thing I, think is interesting is, and you mentioned we talked a little bit about the, kind of the native organic growth, the Zoom versus like acquisitions. And, I have, I've written. a Kind of a editorial on this, like usually between the hours, like 1:00 AM and 4:00 AM when I'm not sleeping, I just gotta get to print yet, maybe I'll just share it, I don't have to print it. but it is like the, and I say like some of the contact center, The vendors out there are tremendous marketers, Like tons of hats off to the marketing, right? and the messaging, whether it be product messaging, whether that be how they go about and message the brand. and, but one of the things that they all, say on the, product side is like one unified platform orchestration data in one place. And if you, really investigate those comments and you scratch the surface, when you say one, is it one because it you have one logo on all those products, Or is it really one shared infrastructure that's driving it all. and, by the way, like I'm a huge fan of M&A, so I'm not saying M&A is not an approach. I, in fact. I, know Zoom's very inquisitive in the market all the time, but, the point being is if the reason Zoom could innovate so fast, and I think it surprised analysts, customers, partners, like it surprised a lot of people how fast is, because there's a lot of technical debt We've taken a premise platform tying it to this cloud platform, tying it to this other cloud platform that was acquired, tying it to this OEM product here, and then building in a way where user wise, administration wise, workflow wise, all operates as one. Yeah. Tremendous amount of technical debt there. And that's not, I, that's not innovation debt, That's just make it work as it used to together better debt.

Iqbal:

Yeah.

Chris:

And with Zoom, and we have none of that. Everything is just innovation. yeah. Yeah.

Iqbal:

Because the plumbing is just, it's a given stay already. Yeah. And I think there's a huge focus in getting the plumbing right, just connecting all the dots together between the different systems. It's e even to be, honest with you, a lot of customers that, that I come across are still over there right now where they've got all these systems being plumbed together. And they are trying to figure out how we can try and consolidate this. And, there is a lot of pressure coming from customers and hence why we're seeing, in the market right now, Cognigy has been acquired by your previous employer. Yep. We've seen, VERINT and Calabrio kind of join forces. So there's, this pressure because customers are like, I don't want to buy a separate workforce management solution. I don't want a separate vendor for my, even my CRM maybe. Sure. And actually we hear it from CRM, owners to, they're telling, they're putting pressure on their CRM, but we just want you guys to handle everything, CX related.

Vinay:

and the, irony being that's exactly what the customers on the outside want. Simple, easy, stress, free. the same principles drive that internal experience. if I'm leading CX in an organization, I wanna work with a partner or a vendor Yeah. who's going to make it simple, easy and stressful for me to, deal with. And I don't wanna be worrying about 15 different platforms. different ways that this connects. That's the plumbing you are the expert, you are the plumber. You help me fix that. Yeah. What I'm worried about is the outcome. Yeah. What am I, what am my customers gonna feel on the other end of this when they call in the future? Is it better? Is it worse? Is it the same? when they interact with my website, my chat bot, is it the better, the same the way? like how is that really gonna manifest itself?'cause what I'm worried about and what I'm concerned about is my whole gambit is I want customers to come back, tell their friends and spend more. if it's not achieving those three outcomes, I, why am I doing what I'm doing? Yeah. And so the technology has to enable that to happen. And I think sometimes. Internally, at least the conversation people can get caught in it being focused on the tech. And we're talking about the value that a great partner can add, which is, it's not just the implementation of the technology, but actually it's that how do I leverage that platform and maximize the features that I brought? I think I posted the other day about, I'm a member of 19 different loyalty programs. I probably use three, but they've all got these benefits, but no one's reminding me about the benefits I've got in those loyalty programs. So that I sign up to something else and they go, oh, you get free coffee. with it. say, oh, that's great, but then I forget that I've got it with Octopus and I've got it with, compare the market and I've got it with, and so in, in that, and if you take that analogy in an organization, people can run off and find different point to point solutions for specific problems. Yeah. And you end up with, I think somebody, I think Nerys Corfield, when I was on a podcast with her, she. termed the phrase Franken stack, like a Franken stack of technology that's just stumbling together. and, you end up with that and, actually often if you look inwardly at what you have, you can get the results you're looking for from technology. You've already got deployed in the organization, but I just don't think a, those conversations internally happen enough, but also from the outside, the partners Yeah. and vendors that you're in aren't driving that conversation enough either.

Iqbal:

Yeah. Yeah. It's, it is difficult. I think everybody's trying to solve for this problem right now because we are all motivated and driven by, how we're compensated ultimately. So when you, sold a solution into a customer, what's the incentive for the vendor or even the partner to keep going back in and say, are you getting value from it? Let's spend some time together. Let's understand your business better. So if somebody has to compensate some, the, partner or the vendor to, to, help the customer get more value from the solution. But the danger is, as you've said, these point solutions still continue to happen in the world of cloud and a credit card. You can just go in and just go and buy, a chat bot to deal with, but then it's not solving the bigger problem for you and you're not looking at it holistically. And I think this is where Zoom's taking a bit of a different approach is trying to join those dots together. Yeah. it has its challenges like I must say, but, what's your perception on, consolidation?

Chris:

Yeah. I don't think it's an either or. like, you have to do both, right? In this day and age. So anyone that cave in and said you want ticketing and bots and CRM and digital channels, okay, buy me and I don't touch to any other PLA platform. Yeah. You're not gonna win. It is not realistic. So you have to say, we have the capabilities to all these things, but we'll meet you right at your journey, if that means you want to. use this voice bot and this WFM and this kind of agent platform, we can bring those together. So I think you'll need part of that for at least the foreseeable future.'cause the reality is back to the Franken stack, which, I've, heard for years in this space. but it's, like those all have like different contract end dates, different durations, different versions, so As a brand, I'm like, I can't just replace all of'em. I have three years left on this contract, three months left on this one, this one I just renewed for five years. So they have different life cycles they're dealing with Yeah. Financially too. So they, just, even if it exists, I can't just rip everything out and I'm gonna keep this core platform. Do you work for that platform? Yeah. And you have to say yes. Yeah. that's, make it work. Yeah. now the, extreme now is in to your point in the world of Voicebots. Yeah. I think, three started today. five started yesterday, there's a, I don't, I can't even tell you how many of them are right now. and I know about this many of'em. and that's and a list this, and that's probably 20, right? So there's way more that I don't know. and some of'em are good. Like it's not even that they, they're good or they're bad, but this market will not support 250 voice bot vendors Yeah. in 18 months from now. They will be massive consolidation. There will be, I think, oggi, it was very smart to be one of the early, year, the valuation is very impressive. So congratulations to both Nice and Coe on that one. Yeah. but I don't think you're gonna see the day of for much longer where there might be one or two more. But after that, a$10 million revenue voice bot company isn't gonna command 700 million, 800 million, it's just not gonna be worth that. because there's 200 other vendors are gonna be like 5 million, 2 million, 10 million. 1 million. Yeah.

Iqbal:

So I think my, my, my argue to that is that there, there is still this thing around best in class and when you have an organization that's totally focused on delivering the best possible voice spot they can, like a poly AI or a cognitive whatever, they can really refine that product to deliver a real, really good experience and likes of Nice, obviously I'm not sure what they're gonna do with Cognigy but they've got different focuses and different priorities. So eventually it will become one product, maybe. Become CX one, part of CX one, will it continue to innovate at the same level as, an individual product? And I think that's, I think there's still always a space for best in class when it comes to capabilities like a voice bot. Because it's such a big thing right now.

Chris:

Yeah. and yeah, like we would. I think we're at a place now where Zoom would say, we have a virtual agent we'd love to show it to. you. We'd love to share our roadmap and some use cases. But if it's a or if it's a, yellow or poly or pick one, we'll work with'em too. Yeah. There is value. However, I think in a, unified experience,'cause in that journey, ideally all the calls are contained right. In the self-service.

Unknown:

Yeah.

Chris:

If they're not, you need a seamless, flow to a human, where that human has con contextual awareness, content of what happened, All that. So all that knowledge needs to be transferred. Seamless to an agent. So it's a continuous conversation, not like, how can I help you? Like I just talking to a bot for an hour, don't ask me the same questions kind of thing. It's your fault for speaking to a bot right now that is also dry. Usually give about six seconds and I'm out. Yeah. but then also if you think about a unified platform and you can look at human engagements, right? Like Human to, customer engagements and bought to customer engagements and look at them Unified in terms of measure them the same. What's being happening? Where do you hire? Where's the lowest customer effort? Where's the highest csat? Use your best calls between your human agents and your customers to actually train your voice bot and use your best voice bot engagements to train your humans.'cause through expert assist and guidance, and at the same time, keeping'em the same experience. cause if these are siloed experience where I have this really cool voice bot doing this thing over here and I have this really cool expert assist solution over here, guiding humans this way, invariably what you're doing is you're creating a different experience depending upon how you engage with the brand, which I would argue that's not what brands want to

Vinay:

do. No, it's not. It is funny. And again, they what we're trying to achieve on the outside No, like I said at the top, I've been involved with this industry for 30 years. and I have heard year after year, omnichannel, seamless experience. Every report says customers want seamless experience and we tried to deliver that to on the outside, but on the inside you've still got agents dealing with five or six different screens. Yeah. Seven or eight different systems. yeah. having to transfer customers from one team to another team.'cause they can't access that'cause of, access protocol or, not being able to train them on knowledge because they don't know that product or service. And so how can you ever deliver that? The omni the UN unified thing is really from the outside As a customer. I want to feel like it's seamless and I want to feel like it all hangs together on internally. That's your job to deliver it, but you can't deliver it if it's all, if it's all,

Chris:

separate. Yeah, that was, that's, you said it much more eloquently than I, I think I used a three wheel wagon, but, your six screens that agents have to navigate is the same thing. We're like, here's six screens, copy here, open that one paste, pull up the knowledge. And by the way, your number one job is to. Keep the customer happy. Yeah. You're like, but here's 85 manual steps you have to do while you're doing that. Yeah. You just gave that agent a three wheeled wagon. They want to do the right thing. Yeah.

Vinay:

It's just hard. Exactly. You're taking away their ability to refocus on the customer and listen and understand and interact. And then we're penalizing them in core evaluations where they're not doing that because they're distracted by navigating all of these systems. Yeah. Have you seen my screen here? Yeah. Yeah. you seen, I've got a copy and past this from this. Yeah. I feel for it is

Chris:

a, it's a, it could be a thankless job in many ways.

Vinay:

Yeah. It, is. and I guess just building that out, so I, you know, what I'm hearing in there, and you said it, clearly it's part of Zoom's, founding values, principles, vision around this whole collaborative piece, allowing people to collaborate. And I think what I'm hearing there is. Yeah, you're gonna have vendors at different points in their cycle, different points of contract, but really the key here is those that will win are gonna be those that can play nice with other people to, are nice as in not the places to work, but but who can play nice with each other, have that connectivity, work with other platforms and integrate into something existing.

Unknown:

Yeah.

Vinay:

and add to that experience and make it better,

Unknown:

Yeah.

Vinay:

rather than having to rip out stuff. And I think the other value thing is, if I'm sitting there as a vendor I'm going, actually if I increase the adoption rate for my client of how much they're using on my platform, when it does come to renewal, when it does come to it is time to think about do you wanna switch or stay? I'm so wedded to you because it's so ingrained in what we do that it makes it really hard. yeah. For me to leave for all the right reasons because I'm getting value out of the and, we talked, touched a little bit on customer success. Earlier on in our preparation around this and we were talking about, it started as a, it's a Reba account manager still very much this, Yeah. in many cases, it's still very much, how many more licenses can I upsell, cross sell, whatever. But at the investment in it is really how do I work with the client To help'em to get best value about what I've sold them. Because to the previous point, the more that they're using my platform, they're more as a, and then they become an internal advocate for it.

Unknown:

Yeah.

Vinay:

the, greater their propensity to wanna stick with something they know then go for, nobody wants to be the CEO, the wakes at the following morning after tech deployment and finds that it's all fallen down. Yeah. Nothing's working. Customers are screaming like, it's going crazy. You, want a good night's sleep and be able to get, not that they sleep very well at night anyway, but, you wanna be able to, you don't want the headlines for those reasons. yeah, And,

Iqbal:

and I think from a technical standpoint, you've got, techies, people look after these environments. Obviously they, just want the, can you keep the lights on for us? Yeah, Can the service remain on sometimes that's all that's needed? Yeah. And that's good enough. But I think what we're talking about here is real innovation is when you've got a vendor like Zoom, who, who's where, by which you don't need to worry about those things anymore. And you don't need a huge technical team either to support that environment. You can, the CX team can focus more on it. And I think that gap is becoming a little bit closer now, where, we certainly, when one working customers, particularly around cx, there is still the technical teams that we work with to help, spin these solutions up. But once they're up and running, you want to just hand that off to a CX user, supervisors the agent, and give everybody the freedom to be able to get the best value out of that product. And a lot of that, just going back to the adoption piece. I think it's just the enablement is so cr crucial and so critical. It's making sure that from the outset you are doing the hard yards to ensure that the solution is built fit for purpose. And not just, I've, had an a, I did an AI workshop, while ago, and, they were like, tell us every single a AI feature that's available on the complex center, Let's list everything. I was like, okay, where to begin. exactly. but, so we did, we went through that exercise, but what does this actually mean to you users? Let's, this, it's gotta be a two way workshop and exercise.

Vinay:

it's like the, I think in the last podcast I use example, so WD 40 is, a great example of. They never say what their product is for, it's the people that use the product that say that these are the uses for it. So they haven't

Chris:

limited

Vinay:

it in their marketing.

Chris:

Say, WD 40. I, do. I do know they want at least three in every household. Look at how

Vinay:

many, look at how many uses there are for that product. And those are by users who have played with the product and discovered. And I think in a similar way, people can play with the platform and understand what the potentials are, what some of the features are. But if they're, allowed to experiment with it, run with it, they can find those novel cases to go, actually we can deploy it this way and solve this problem. But it comes back to the, rather than the list of features. Let's talk about what are the things that we're trying to solve. What are the problems that we've got right now? And just pivoting a little bit in the conversation, you were talking to organizations about deployments. What are the big sitting vendor side or platform side? What are the big mistakes that you see or you, witness in the boardroom or in those conversations that businesses are making

Chris:

when they're thinking about. I think like you hit on our topic, like the actual adoption use case transformation, continuous investment in, not, necessarily the product, but in like how you're gonna transform your CX strategy. No, it's not an event, But in, in implementing a new CX platform, in my opinion, it's not an event where I implemented, I deployed event, done, trained good next project, It's, a life cycle. Especially when you have products like Zoom that innovate so fast that, three months from now, there'll be all kinds of things that you should be able to take care of advantage of. I think it's a little, a lot of vendors accountability to make sure. as much as we can, that the customers are at least aware of what they are. Make it easy for them to train, communications online training, but there's a much different motion on. How to use and how to optimize. Yeah. How to use as I click these buttons, I'd be able to form auto QM or whatever. It's, I have This is how you do it. Yeah. Okay. But even if I know, how did I change my business? Did I look at the right things? And that's really how to optimize. I would, that's how I define the difference and how to optimize oftentimes isn't staying within one vendor swim lane. If you really wanna optimize you use a little bit of this from your voice bot and you had a better workflow to your agent force as an example, Yeah. or ServiceNow, and then you actually had this knowledge, let's say you're in a glean world or something like that, right? for indexing and you tied all this stuff together. Now you're optimizing the customer experience. No one vendor's really gonna be great at that because our domain knowledge is very, deep in. Our product set and we can help if on train and how to optimize our product set. But we can't necessarily, I think partners are the best ones'cause they know ticketing very well and Zoom very well and clean and they're agnostic and you may not need these three features from Zoom use these four from Salesforce, these 27 from Zoom, I'm back this one from someone else. But that might be the right answer. Yeah. so I think but ultimately is the vendor, right? Yeah. And, how the vendor impacts that is do we as a vendor enable partners to be aware of what our product does and where we integrate with other platforms and how we integrate and what are our APIs look like and what our SDKs look like. So our partners can go and, amplify that value to a large customer base more than any vendor. I don't think any CX vendor back to your point, everyone's a CX vendor these days. Can do it without a healthy partner ecosystem of, as a part of the strategy. Yeah.

Iqbal:

Yeah. it's going back to that whole point around joining the dots together for the customer is there and, understanding how the, customers operate their business processes, what the other systems that they have and taking a bit of an ownership as to going in confidently and saying, look, we can help you solve these issues. And, it's never as simple as enabling the technology, like what I say to every customer. That's the easy part. Yeah. honestly, that is, that's how to use, it's going back to the optimization, it's going back to, let's under really understand your process. Sometimes the processes are driven by legacy technology as well, what we are finding. So it's here's a chance now for us to take, let's take a step back. Maybe let's improve the process because now we've got this new technology that just deliver that. Yeah.

Vinay:

And maybe part of the kind of challenge or the, I guess the transition we've got right now is. At the moment, a lot of the technology conversations, particularly the AI space, are being led by technologists, people that understand the mechanics of how it works, and models and agent agents. And I thought it's not Voodoo Black, it's a little, I'm sure it's like a, it, if you've seen the new Superman movie. It's like a, it's a row of monkeys just in the background typing away but but we were talking and that's it. and I said, I saw this really great clip from one of the ex, guy, ex senior execs at Meta, I think it was. And he was talking about refrigeration and he said that, AI's at a place where refrigeration was important, it was a great invention, changed the world, and people that invented refrigeration made money. But the people that really made money were Coca-Cola.'cause Coca-Cola used refrigeration Yeah. to enable their product. And in a similar way, I think there's a point now we're reaching where the conversation's very tech become. Currently very tech led about the mechanics. We're starting to get into organizations, really getting their head around what's our Coca-Cola moment? What's the deployment that's gonna really transform this, for our customers. And one of the things that I've been chatting about recently is the excite, I think the exciting opportunities for contact centers to finally be able to flip themselves from a, cost center to a value center, not by adding revenue lines through cross sell and upsell, but by actually the richness of insight that it collects.'cause the volume of contact, a contact an average of 30,000 calls a week or whatever it is. if you take the average call in, there's probably about six, 700 words of conversation in there. Versus a survey that might get a, 5% response rate and three or four words in a box. The rich. And, you are hearing from a greater spread of customers, the richness of insight you get in there can be so informative to other teams in the business. So actually that whole mindset of shift in the contact center leader and the CX leader. To be able to sell into the rest of the organization. the value of this insight, I think there's a really interesting, opportunity coming up. Yeah. For people that get there quick. I

Iqbal:

think that's the next big thing. And now we're gonna touch on the future. That, we've got AI and, all these capabilities now, digital experiences and everything else. It's all, that's a great way to be able to respond to a customer. How do we get ahead of the game using that insight to really drive change in a business that can help, deliver a better product, better service in the future? Do you think we, we ai

Chris:

I think every, everyone's talking about AI for sure, right? Everyone's at different stages of and do we start just internally with maybe agent guidance? Do we start with something very simple? Yeah. But very, powerful. Like wrap up notes.

Iqbal:

Yes. exactly.

Chris:

that's, you're not, that's like tip very small of what AI can do, but very powerful. So what I say Start somewhere because it's gonna move very fast. And, that was another, maybe other thing was last week and, the comment was made is like, there's no gonna be, there's gonna be no fast followers in ai.

Unknown:

Yeah.

Chris:

You're a leader or you're behind. Right? it is gonna happen that fast. So starve doing something. and then a comment that you made earlier, which playing on the, like the, CX platform and, having one platform to connect everything and, ai, I think one of the challenges that we're seeing is like, how, do I use ai? And then all of a sudden you start embracing other people and like. you have privacy concerns, you have legal concerns, right? And you have all these other kind of conversations popping up. But I love when we talk to customers and whether be myself or our team here, if technology wasn't a barrier, like if you, like, forget what you're experiencing, like how would you reimagine customer experience? And I'm not talking about just contact centers, like I think some vendors think. Customer experience is the minute someone calls you and the minute you end that call, that's customer experience. I'm, the tip of the iceberg. What about when they go to stores? Yeah. Or they go to a dental office or they go to a medical office, or they go to the website or they, they go to a restaurant or they go to the hospitality. All those things are touch points, that the customer experience. So if you could connect that journey, whether they actually called on the contact center or chat with you, or called like someone in finance that wasn't on the contact center platform or wanted to go to a kiosk experience or wanted a video for an eye test or a video, I would say there's, two times I always want video on I'm talking about my health or my money. I want, I wanna see you, I wanna see you. Those two things, everything else can be digital. but there's value to video, right? Yeah. so I, I think when you have those conversations and you really start like imagining, imagin this, then you realize it gets super exciting and the reason they're not doing it isn't because. These practice leaders have never imagined it. Many of them come up with ideas that I could never even think of. They're like, the, problem is, The technology doesn't allow them to implement what they want to deliver. Yeah. So if you like start taking those barriers down. Yeah. Like the conversations got very interesting and and I always say think Zoom is, in a better position to actually deliver on the outcomes of those, call it borderless CX conversations.

Vinay:

Yeah. Yeah. and that connects in the dots thing is it, is coming up with the idea and the imagination of the, future is not difficult in terms of the experience you want deliver, it. but the moment you start thinking about how do I make that happen? That becomes very hard for somebody who's not the technologies, who's in the organization, putting out fires nine to five, then, Preparing papers for the next meeting, who's running from thing to think. They don't have the bandwidth to think about that. It's people like us that are able to go in and help them with that fresh thinking and that ability to think and your point about the, again, the collaboration piece about connectivity. There's a difference between an agent getting a course, somebody that says, I called yesterday, and this is what he talked about, versus I called yesterday, by the way, he also went into the store and spoke to Alice Yeah. and he also went online and tried to do this in account. So now when I've got the summary, it's not just, here's what was the last interaction, here's what's been happening over the last few days, that's gonna give you some contextualization To what he's probably calling about, or could be calling about? Yeah. Then how do I empower you to have that better conversation? Yeah. and the, great thing is, that whether even outside of the contact center, just in our own lives, we're being exposed to more and more of this. If you go on Google right now, you get an a summary right at the top of the results people, the way that people use chat, G chatGPT gives'em the sort of a thing in my business I use. Otter AI note taker on most of my calls, summarizes the conversation. Gives em the, we're, using the Zoom's got a flavor of that Yeah. Yeah. Zoom's got a note taker as well. There are other things available. but all of those kind of things help make life easier as our customers get used to that outside of our environment, when they come to deal with you, they're just gonna expect you to have A similar sort of thing. a young person starting in an organization right now sitting in front of a computer that's, 10 years old or whatever it is that can't does it, that works slower than the device in their pocket. Yeah. Becomes a frustration. Yeah. they can seamlessly move from app to app on a device, but yeah, I've gotta have three different screens open, four different browsers and but like that. Those are the frustrations that then they're not gonna affect internally is on, attrition, and do they want stay in that role? Or Why do I want to navigate this difficult technology when I can?

Chris:

yeah. in modern technology and, not just contact center, like everything we, are, the Ubers of the world are drive, ride, share, I should or online video on demand, like very general categories or staying like digital hotels or whatever brand that category is, right? The switching costs is so easy. it's like literally you could switch brand loyalty in, three seconds. I'm no longer doing Lyft and doing Uber. I'm no longer doing Airbnb. whatever case, whichever it goes, the battleground is gonna be in the experience, Is what I believe. Yeah. And then if you go to brands, and the questions I'll say is in the conversations or like you have at your company. if I asked you like, who in your company is accountable for ensuring that your customers are happy? I don't think any business leader's answer would be like, oh, it's those four people out there. what about, No, I'm not the contact center. That's the contact center people. The answer typically is business of any size. And I'll tell you at Zoom a hundred percent Eric's viewpoint, who's accountable for sure. Our customers are happy. Every single employee. Every single one of you. Right. there's a problem, you help'em. And if that technology, like it's a, it is a very easy, simple, powerful kind of culture principle, but if your technology doesn't make that easy, right, you can't really deliver it. But I think the days were like, that's why I say contact center is like long in the tooth. It is it assumes like those four people, there are contact center people are in charge of making sure our customer's happy. I build product. You sell product, but we all have roles. But I think customer experience is a horizontal, it is practice. hundred percent. Not a vertical practice as a department. Yeah. And if you think about horizontal Yeah. CX is a horizontal practice, again, technology conversations take a different path. Yeah. Workflows stay a different path,

Iqbal:

But do you not think that's, because like in many kind of enterprises, those that are leading the CX vision are not cut across these other, because other department, you can talk about marketing or maybe even, sales. Sales for instance. Internal meetings, products often, how often are they speaking to the CX leaders? Is it not incumbent on the CX leader to really step in and almost dictate actually this is how we should be? So I think, I I think there's

Vinay:

two things in there. I think. we've talked about this before, the understanding of what CX is, we talked about it front. is more than the contact center. It is not just that kind of thing, that kind of bit. But whereas if you ask most people what sales and marketing is, most people could tell you what it is. When I go to dinner parties and if I say to somebody, I'm working in customer experience, their eyes is eyes lays over and they don't know what I'm talking about. And so you have to explain any a different That's why I tell people I'm a race car driver. Yeah. That's it. I should do that. Yeah. I just tell people I'm a Bollywood actor. or something. so I think there's partly that. Then I think the second thing is, that, again, most people leading CX and organizations have landed there by accident. They've grown out of a contact center or customer service function or sometimes a HR function. And so they have a vertical they've grown up into, but they've not been naturally pushed out broader across the, different teams. And I think the value really is, that, is, because you have that horizontal Perspective, you have a unique vantage point that your colleagues don't have. So the level of awareness you can give to the team is much broader because you are speaking to customers across the different point of the journey. Your teams are gathering insight from, not just, that, those that got through and managed to speak to you and buy from you and do business with you, but you're also hearing from customers who have tried to and not been able to, you're also hearing from customers who are leaving in their drawers and saying, listen, you better get this right, or that we're shifting that intelligence is really valuable. Yeah. But if you are just sharing that in a board report with your vertical that says, these are the five complaint reasons, these are the five top calls, this is what our NPS is, and it's just a dashboard, and that's what's coming out month in, month out, a people become desensitized to it because they don't know what it means. You've gotta bring it to life through that storytelling and really help shape in the room. What customers are feeling. And I just think that a lot of people struggle to do that, not because they're not bright and intelligent. they're really smart people. But I think it's getting used to that broader, that broader ability to network across the organization to speak language. It's difficult, it's

Iqbal:

difficult to do that, but I think just going back to, I think a lot of the times it's difficult to surface that kind of information because you don't trust perhaps information that's coming out of the technology that you have. And I think this is where we can play, with things like ai. You can start to be more confident in being able to extract that level of insight and intelligence. And I, don't think we've got there yet. And I think there's, obviously a clear design. you, we are hearing vendors talk about it. Salesforce are a massive advocate of this. They've got a ton of case studies now. They, I think I mentioned Japan recently. They've been going quite aggressive in Japan around using AI to, to deliver this insight and intelligence. Yeah. And I think once you've got that, you're giving your CX leader the power to really confidently go across the business and say, look, we've got, real intelligence here to help drive Yeah. Huge outcomes for the business. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's the tipping point. If we can figure out a way to do deliver that and where you, want to win.

Chris:

and I think two things need to happen is, one is you need that internal CX advocate champion that's willing to go and have non-ST status quo conversations. But you also equally need, call it at the C-suite executive leadership, people that are willing to listen. And understand CX is a differentiator when those two things come together. yes, I think CX is a definitely competitive differentiator for our brand. And then you have a someone that's willing to challenge task go, Imagine this. Yeah. Magic can happen, Yeah. But if one of those two things are missing, it's gonna be slow. Yeah. And I, think, both of those things happen.

Vinay:

It is gonna be slow and I think that. unfortunately, you can't wait for one of those things to happen. You can't wait for a board to go, okay, we're ready to listen. Come and tell me if you're gonna dry change. You've gotta, you've gotta put your neck out a little bit here. You've got to be that evangelist. Yeah. That person saying this says, no, this is why I need, this is a, I'm giving you some awareness here. It's like that friend where they're doing a behavior again and again and you can see it, but they can't, but you, it's your job to tell them, I can see this because you're doing it for the best intention. And the second thing is, if you're a board who's ready to listen and you're not getting Yeah, that lead, right? Yeah. you need to facilitate that either through bringing them up and going, Hey, don't just gimme the report every month. I want to know this. Or you need to make a change. And, when that happens and you get that balance of, oh, sorry, you get that I'm even call it balance. to get the integration of somebody who's leading cx, who's willing to put their neck out the line, is bringing you, interesting insight. bringing you some things to look at, to really bring to life what's going on as well as a board that's prepared to

Chris:

listen. Yeah. That is your, yeah, I think you're spot on. And I think, I'm very self-reflective as a person, as a company, as a CX practice. And I think a lot of that onus is on vendors to let these practice leaders know that's even a possibility. So even if I was a practice leader and I didn't, and I had these dreams but I'm like, but that doesn't exist out there, then I'm not gonna go bark up a tree.'cause it doesn't, what I try to solve for doesn't stick. So like we go and let these practice leaders, like, listen, you can have these different kind of conversations Like that capability does exist. Maybe not on the platform you're on today, but it does exist. Yeah. And now they're like, okay, great. Now I, I feel educated. cause some vendors, our job, I always say, we're not always like there to sell. We're there to educate. And if we educate and we listen, we will get a customer. If we don't listen and we don't educate and we're just trying to sell, then we don't deserve a Customer. We need to understand what the customer's trying to get done. but if we can let them know, then that practice leader's more emboldened to go and say, I had a wild dream and someone validated my dream wasn't that crazy, so we should do it. Right.

Iqbal:

and I think that's where we, going back to your point around vision, that these potential CX leaders have, and they've always been, li limited by the technology. I'm now coming across situations where it's starting to, the balance is going the other way where the innovation is. Coming in thick and fast, like a bit too quick, in fact. Yeah. But, can't, we're not even getting the basics Fully adopted yet. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. and they're way behind what Yeah. The likes of you guys talk about. I go into a customer meeting and way we're looking at transforming their CX and we may want to start the conversation with all the innovation. It's that's all well and good, but Yeah. We haven't got the basics right. No. We don't have, AI summarization right now, enabled. So it is, a journey that everybody's on and everybody's journey slightly different. Yeah. And I think it's, always appreciating that fact. whilst the technology is way ahead, it takes, time to get, and reach out. Yeah.

Chris:

And my analogy is, I have a lot of'em, they're not always good. Yeah. But bear with me here, but sometimes you just don't want to go a squirrel hunting with an elephant gun. Yeah. If, all they need is like, their big desire, listen, we've rallied around, this is our use case right now. We want to add WhatsApp as a channel. Great. Let's do that. But if you like, great, and then you just incessantly like just throw up on them about the 500 other features they didn't ask for, Yeah. you're not listening. So meet them where they're at, let them know you can help'em and say. But once we run, I just want you to know these other things. We can do. take five minutes just so you know. We do'em.'cause I don't want someone else to come in and tell you They do'em and we don't. but let's meet you Where're at. Let's get you this WhatsApp up and running.

Iqbal:

Yeah. It just goes back to that for me. Great. CX is once you know your customer. Exactly. I read this, report from Gartner and top 500 companies, leaders and companies were, quite transparent about the fact that only 14 to 15% felt they knew their customers. And again. Why is that? Why is there such a gap? Why do you not know your customers what they want, what drives them? you've got the intelligence now you've got the data there to figure this stuff out. Surely once you understand your customer, then clearly you, can deliver a much better experience. Yeah. it Completely understand.

Vinay:

It completely begins with that. it's just like in your relationship. if you're married and you ask your wife, are you okay? And she says, yes. when she means it, and when she's actually saying no, and you're in trouble and you need to go do something, like you can tell you, from the signals, right? You have that intelligence or I say, if you have to ask, you already know the answer. You that honeymoon period. Exactly right. That's it. But over a period you gather that data. and in organizations, if that, that data's just not been unleashed to the level that it can be potentially unleashed and put into the hands of people that, maybe in years gone by, would've been in an MI dashboard or Power BI dashboard, or in Tableau or somewhere that somebody's trying to visualize it, but actually, democratizing it putting into people's hands and say, this is what customers are saying. This is how you can use it in product development and design. This is how you use it in your commercial strategy. This is how you use it in marketing and brand design. This is how you use it in premises design and all those kind of things. But it's, done at that kind of scale. Yeah. in a really, powerful way. And I think we're an exciting thing where the future isn't just while we're talking about the future, a nice little segue to take us into the, I guess the last part of this conversation. If you were to transport yourself five years from now, where do you see all of this going? What's, your view?

Chris:

I'd be on a beach somewhere for sure. For that. no, that aside, I think five years, it's, and I heard a podcast recently where someone says don't, like strategy in five years is that's like the stupidest thing you've ever heard, right? it's like things are changing so fast, you're lucky to get a one year strategy. but that being said, like just about Zoom specifically, we have a lot of like, really cool chat GPT like interfaces coming on top of all of our CX and, call it telephony data where you can just engage with it about questions against your. Unstructured data, the voice conversations and chats with your structured data, like whether we pull in the CM data or talk time agent, ID duration and just ask a question like, Hey, average handle time is going up. What's happening? And it could talk about, your look at your WFM data and say you roll, your scheduling was off and your call, average call duration went up over here, but those average call went out because it was talking about this topic, which doesn't look at all the data and just tell you. Yeah. Which, like, and I'm, and this is coming out. I, I shouldn't even actually share yet. Let's not get you in trouble, Wanna, but the concept, but if you fast forward beyond that, like it's just forgetting like CCaaS vendors or CRM vendors, what I would love to see, because I am ambitiously lazy person, is like a Chris Morrissey agent that interfaces with every brand's agent in the world. And I can say. Hey, Chris Pop, I want to go to Barcelona on Delta Airlines. I'd love to stay at a boutique hotel near, gothic quarter. And I have some points at this hotel. So there's a brand affiliated with that hotel. I prefer first class if you can negotiate a good deal for me. Okay. and, you just, and I like dinner reservations at a nice top. restaurant Thursday night, just, and then crisp B Guess that's done in like seconds talking to Delta bot and Hilton Bot and OpenTable bot or whatever other bots are out there, To complete those tasks. And'cause those things can happen like instantly,

Unknown:

Yeah.

Chris:

And it comes back to here's your itinerary and then you can opt in. do I want to say yes I want that, or do I just say I trust you, Chris? Yeah. Which no one ever says, but would you say I trust you, Chris, go and just book it Or do I want options. Yeah, I think that this bot to bot framework, not just from brand to brand, not like just CM to CC, but I'm talking like consumer to brand Bob experience. Yeah.

Vinay:

a lot of people talk about that, but you gave me five years. Yeah, I gave, you five years. I'm still a, I think, I look at a lot of, so I used to DJ years ago and I look at current like modern DJs. and got all this technology that beat match is for you and it tells you the next right records for, I'm still at the age where you pull that vinyl out your crate, you put it down and you were beat matching live and you had that feel of the record and you were just, you were adjusting it to get it to beat match and you were doing it manually. So I, I think that the role of the but to get, to make some of that easier, choose the right record'cause it tells you it's gonna beat match.'cause it's gonna do, this is gonna increase that. But still some of that involvement from a human experience perspective in the experience. great. Gimme the five options. Can you put three hotels. two restaurants. exactly. I still wanna be involved in some of that kind of, otherwise you everything becomes a task and you lose that experiential size. I,

Iqbal:

I would argue that. The end outcome here is a great holiday traveling first class. Yeah. You get to sit exactly where you want in the restaurant of your choice. Yeah. If you can achieve those outcomes Yeah. With a bot. Yeah. Who cares? Who cares That you've not had to, negotiate with a really real human being. Yeah. so I, get, I think there could be options. It doesn't

Chris:

have to be all or one, it can come back. We found three hotel recommendations, three restaurant recommendations. I like that one. That one I want.

Iqbal:

Yeah.

Chris:

Thank you. Yeah.

Iqbal:

Yeah. But the thing is that may, not be, that may be, there may be biased there because you've got bot to bot conversations. when you have, when you speak to human beings that, look, help me out here. I really, could really do with, this is my wife's anniversary or whatever. And then you've got somebody potentially that, that can do something outside the norm to give you something special. Or maybe those moments will be missed.

Chris:

and it might be like the ta the things, and maybe it's not a vacation, maybe it's I just need to get a dentist appointment.

Iqbal:

Yeah. It doesn't matter. Yeah. I,

Chris:

think

Vinay:

it, it also depends on the transaction itself. Like some of the things you do. I definitely don't want to talk to my car insurance people. Yeah. Or renew this subscription. Yeah. Or health. just let the bot do that. Yeah. But, there are other points where you want to be in the conversation a little bit.'cause there is that human experience piece. Yeah.

Chris:

but anyway, whatever the future holds, it's gonna be exciting. But if you think about it, it'll get to know you better. like every algorithm sits like social media, and, kudos. I don't know if I plug anything like Instagram's figured me out if I buy so much on Instagram now, like every time I'm there, Mike, I like those shop TikTok, click, I think I buy more on Instagram than anything else.'cause it just feeds me what I like. It knows me now. It's incredible. Like I think TikTok shops,

Vinay:

that's become one of the biggest retail spaces. In the world. I think it's a sec. If you, it's I think the amount of beauty products sold on TikTok in the uk. If you added it all up, it would be the second largest beauty brand. Yeah. In the, that's incredible. That's,

Chris:

imagine your

Vinay:

personal

Chris:

bot knowing you that

Iqbal:

it's that refrigeration moment, tiktoks. it, they're leveraging a platform to, to drive success. And I think that's where I feel like Zoom are in that space where you've allowing customers to be able to do what they wanna do best. they've just gotta figure out how to use a technology. Which is why they come to people like us. Exactly. So look, thank you so much for No,

Vinay:

thank you. It was great giving us your time today, inviting us into your lovely offices here in London. I appreciate the weather. You kept the ice for us. So Californian's a well, people watching can't see what the weather looks like, so we'll just tell you. It's sunny. It's 28 degrees outside, behind all the clash. The a c blue. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So as usual, thanks for listening. Thanks for watching. If you're watching on YouTube, please kink the link, click the link below, subscribe, hit the bell, you'll get all the notifications. Thanks for being on the journey, and we'll see you on the next episode.

Iqbal:

Thank you.

Vinay:

Thank you.